Thread: What do you love in an RPG?
A very large number of people here and on FH want to develop RPG games (Pseudo is inspirational in certain aspects).
I am in that group of people ^.^ and so are many others who will be reading this thread.
Let us discuss about the things that make an RPG game enjoyable, so that we all have our priorities right (If any of us actually get down to completing one)
Share your opinions on storyline, gameplay, battle systems, music, dialogue, pace of the game, graphics, everything.
(Note: Since there is so much confusion over the definition of an RPG game, I am referring to one like Mardek or Final Fantasy X. Some branching of story lines and alternate endings are fine too, but not as open ended as say, Skyrim. Skyrim is a great RPG too but it's not the kind of game I'm aiming at (Not implying that I can ever reach the epicness of Skyrim :( ). )
I will post my opinions too, but I will need to think about it. I'll post it tomorrow or day after, hopefully we will have some discussion started by then...
I am in that group of people ^.^ and so are many others who will be reading this thread.
Let us discuss about the things that make an RPG game enjoyable, so that we all have our priorities right (If any of us actually get down to completing one)
Share your opinions on storyline, gameplay, battle systems, music, dialogue, pace of the game, graphics, everything.
(Note: Since there is so much confusion over the definition of an RPG game, I am referring to one like Mardek or Final Fantasy X. Some branching of story lines and alternate endings are fine too, but not as open ended as say, Skyrim. Skyrim is a great RPG too but it's not the kind of game I'm aiming at (Not implying that I can ever reach the epicness of Skyrim :( ). )
I will post my opinions too, but I will need to think about it. I'll post it tomorrow or day after, hopefully we will have some discussion started by then...
Games seem to try to do different things. Some like to use good graphics, others good game-play. For me, I think I'm the kind of person who will look at what an RPG is good at, and pay attention to that.
So, really, I like RPGs that do something, like graphics, game-play, whatever and do it well, while everything else is at least passable.
One thing that does annoy me, is things being lost forever, and exploits in game mechanics that make the game trivial and are counter intuitive (Hello FFII).
So, really, I like RPGs that do something, like graphics, game-play, whatever and do it well, while everything else is at least passable.
One thing that does annoy me, is things being lost forever, and exploits in game mechanics that make the game trivial and are counter intuitive (Hello FFII).
For me the most important part of an RPG is the system. I tend to spend hours finding the best ways to play a certain system and find out exactly how it works. A bit vague I guess but using lets use one of the games on my wall. (looking for a game)
Resonance of fate: The system in this game revolved around three things (in no particular order).
1) How many bezel shards you had. (Determined special abilities in combat)
2) Your overall level (overall level is level in handguns + level in grenades + level in machineguns) which determined total weight you can carry.
3) Your gun customization which determined in battle attributes.
So most of my time with this game was spent figuring out the best way to customize the guns with the limited wight I had available.
Another game off my wall. (searching)
Tales of Vesperia: This is either the simplest or most complex game on the wall depending on how you play it.
I'll explain this game differently from RoF since it's far more complex. You can play this game two ways. The way where you fight you way through the game and do no extra arte or item searching eventually beating the game. Or you can delve into the games arte and crafting mechanics. If you want to get the most out of the arte and crafting mechanics then you have to learn about the enemies and the battle and drop mechanics. If want to get all of that then you have to do the sidequests for alternate versions and other such things. This game I would have to write a literal essay to fully explain the mechanics. Suffice to say in one sentence. The entire system of this game works together. Well. And I love it.
Resonance of fate: The system in this game revolved around three things (in no particular order).
1) How many bezel shards you had. (Determined special abilities in combat)
2) Your overall level (overall level is level in handguns + level in grenades + level in machineguns) which determined total weight you can carry.
3) Your gun customization which determined in battle attributes.
So most of my time with this game was spent figuring out the best way to customize the guns with the limited wight I had available.
Another game off my wall. (searching)
Tales of Vesperia: This is either the simplest or most complex game on the wall depending on how you play it.
I'll explain this game differently from RoF since it's far more complex. You can play this game two ways. The way where you fight you way through the game and do no extra arte or item searching eventually beating the game. Or you can delve into the games arte and crafting mechanics. If you want to get the most out of the arte and crafting mechanics then you have to learn about the enemies and the battle and drop mechanics. If want to get all of that then you have to do the sidequests for alternate versions and other such things. This game I would have to write a literal essay to fully explain the mechanics. Suffice to say in one sentence. The entire system of this game works together. Well. And I love it.
Sorry to be reviving an old thread, but I really want to comment on this! I hope no one minds? Like, there is no necromancy rule here, is there?(o_o)
There are so many things I love about RPGs that can completely make or break the game. Really when it comes down to it, a good or unique plot can really help make a game. An example of a good plot would be something like Crono Trigger, where you have a long and thorough, well thought-out plot with lots of detail and effort put into it. On the other hand, a unique plot that avoids cliche, or even exploits cliche, holds its own merit. Examples would be games like Sonny, which plays on the twist of a zombie RPG where instead of being a lone survivor in the zombie apocalypse it has the protagonist as a zombie himself. Then there's the MARDEK series having the satirical approach to cliches, poking fun at similar games without hesitation (really all of Pseudo's games do that.)
Of course, plot isn't everything. Relateable characters are incredibly important. Not just blank, run-of-the-mill characters. The best characters are characters with genuine emotions and reactions, and the better formed the character is, the more attached you can become to them. With that, you can immerse yourself in a game and fully enjoy it.
Gameplay is also critical. Personally I like grinding, and I loved the grinding in MARDEK. The thing is, grinding can be very annoying when there's too much of it. I mean, look at Arcuz. The first chapter took me quite some time to get through, and the protagonist was a silent protagonist, the side characters had crappy personality and there was no fan-service to speak of. >:( The music was reused from other games by the same makers, the monsters were generic and there was TONNES of grinding. However, the game had good sidequests and a somewhat interesting plot, with okay combat skills and fantastic customization. Then came Arcuz 2. It came with the (false) promise of more fan-service in the main menu screen.(>_>) It added the feature of allies, but other than that it was more of the last game. A LOT MORE. LIKE, IT TOOK ME THREE BLOODY DAYS PLAYING A HACKED VERSION OF THE GAME TO BEAT IT! Why did it take so long, even though I didn't have to grind for money or for weapons or for experience? BECAUSE IT TOOK ME THREE ACTUAL DAYS TO GET THROUGH THE MAZE OF LEVELS WITH SUCH POOR MAPS AND SO MANY MANY LEVELS! It was unbearable! And it really wasn't worth it. The game had very little plot and very little meaning.
So yes. Excessive grinding is only okay if you're greatly rewarded with good plot.
I really love customization, though. It's really fun to have a game where you can design your own character, forge your own weapons and pick your own skill sets. That's why I love Deliverance so much! It's just a shame that there aren't more variables to change in it! More faces to choose from, perhaps a skill tree and class system... That game was amazing.
Then you have to consider physics. I like an RPG to have a little magic, but to have the magic firmly rooted in certain types. Too much magic and sporadic magic makes a game too complex and hard to follow. In other words, the Sonny system had too many status effects, and it was difficult to understand them. Combine that with Sonny's complex and underpowered stat system of piercing and "defense" and you have a battle system that saps energy from an otherwise fantastic game. I like a system that groups characters into certain classes and gives them types of skills in those classes, and preferably, related to certain elements. I mean, ultimately these games all come down to the basic combat system of "Run out of MP and it doesn't matter, run out of HP and you die, make the enemy run out of HP and you win". It's just always nice to see a system that makes that more interesting than a basic math problem.
Items are always very good, though. I like games with conventional medieval weapons, like bows and swords and axes and whatnot. I think pretty much everyone does. It's really great if you can add an explanation as to why guns don't work in that world, such as magic overpowering them. Of course, it's also good to explain how an untrained farm boy can suddenly pick up a sword and know how to use it (i.e. sword skills learned form the sword, magical strength enhancement and so on.)
Other than that, a good world is just wonderful. I don't like playing a game where you just crawl through one dungeon for a long time *cough cough* Arcuz 2 *cough cough* or where you only have, like, three locations to visit *cough cough* Sonny *cough cough* but I prefer a world with numerous locations to explore, different nations and different types of people, lots of fun and interactive environments. A whole world to explore, really.
Compared to all this, graphics are very little... though I will say that the game is very little if you can't at least see the person's face. Another reason to like MARDEK and some of Pseudo's other games is that the characters all have their own faces and changing facial expressions. This adds emotional depth to the story, for a relatively low investment of effort.
Music is one of the hardest variables to get right, though. I like a good game that has different music for peaceful areas versus dungeon areas, as well as character themes, battle themes and plot-specific music. MARDEK did this well, but it could have done more for battle music, and didn't need to do so much for plot/mood music (I think "Something's Amiss" was played only once.) The most lovable music balance in an RPG was probably Crono Trigger. Some small things had their own, very good music, but such pieces were small enough to fit what they were for. Even small pieces were looped, but they didn't get annoying after you heard them a hundred times (Manoria Cathedral, anyone? Ten seconds long, if I'm not mistaken.)
I... I feel like I've said so little but wrote so much? I don't know, did I say everything I wanted to say? Well, if I want to say more, I guess I might post again? I'm terribly sorry for all the length though, I think this must be hard to choke down! Sorry!(v_v)
There are so many things I love about RPGs that can completely make or break the game. Really when it comes down to it, a good or unique plot can really help make a game. An example of a good plot would be something like Crono Trigger, where you have a long and thorough, well thought-out plot with lots of detail and effort put into it. On the other hand, a unique plot that avoids cliche, or even exploits cliche, holds its own merit. Examples would be games like Sonny, which plays on the twist of a zombie RPG where instead of being a lone survivor in the zombie apocalypse it has the protagonist as a zombie himself. Then there's the MARDEK series having the satirical approach to cliches, poking fun at similar games without hesitation (really all of Pseudo's games do that.)
Of course, plot isn't everything. Relateable characters are incredibly important. Not just blank, run-of-the-mill characters. The best characters are characters with genuine emotions and reactions, and the better formed the character is, the more attached you can become to them. With that, you can immerse yourself in a game and fully enjoy it.
Gameplay is also critical. Personally I like grinding, and I loved the grinding in MARDEK. The thing is, grinding can be very annoying when there's too much of it. I mean, look at Arcuz. The first chapter took me quite some time to get through, and the protagonist was a silent protagonist, the side characters had crappy personality and there was no fan-service to speak of. >:( The music was reused from other games by the same makers, the monsters were generic and there was TONNES of grinding. However, the game had good sidequests and a somewhat interesting plot, with okay combat skills and fantastic customization. Then came Arcuz 2. It came with the (false) promise of more fan-service in the main menu screen.(>_>) It added the feature of allies, but other than that it was more of the last game. A LOT MORE. LIKE, IT TOOK ME THREE BLOODY DAYS PLAYING A HACKED VERSION OF THE GAME TO BEAT IT! Why did it take so long, even though I didn't have to grind for money or for weapons or for experience? BECAUSE IT TOOK ME THREE ACTUAL DAYS TO GET THROUGH THE MAZE OF LEVELS WITH SUCH POOR MAPS AND SO MANY MANY LEVELS! It was unbearable! And it really wasn't worth it. The game had very little plot and very little meaning.
So yes. Excessive grinding is only okay if you're greatly rewarded with good plot.
I really love customization, though. It's really fun to have a game where you can design your own character, forge your own weapons and pick your own skill sets. That's why I love Deliverance so much! It's just a shame that there aren't more variables to change in it! More faces to choose from, perhaps a skill tree and class system... That game was amazing.
Then you have to consider physics. I like an RPG to have a little magic, but to have the magic firmly rooted in certain types. Too much magic and sporadic magic makes a game too complex and hard to follow. In other words, the Sonny system had too many status effects, and it was difficult to understand them. Combine that with Sonny's complex and underpowered stat system of piercing and "defense" and you have a battle system that saps energy from an otherwise fantastic game. I like a system that groups characters into certain classes and gives them types of skills in those classes, and preferably, related to certain elements. I mean, ultimately these games all come down to the basic combat system of "Run out of MP and it doesn't matter, run out of HP and you die, make the enemy run out of HP and you win". It's just always nice to see a system that makes that more interesting than a basic math problem.
Items are always very good, though. I like games with conventional medieval weapons, like bows and swords and axes and whatnot. I think pretty much everyone does. It's really great if you can add an explanation as to why guns don't work in that world, such as magic overpowering them. Of course, it's also good to explain how an untrained farm boy can suddenly pick up a sword and know how to use it (i.e. sword skills learned form the sword, magical strength enhancement and so on.)
Other than that, a good world is just wonderful. I don't like playing a game where you just crawl through one dungeon for a long time *cough cough* Arcuz 2 *cough cough* or where you only have, like, three locations to visit *cough cough* Sonny *cough cough* but I prefer a world with numerous locations to explore, different nations and different types of people, lots of fun and interactive environments. A whole world to explore, really.
Compared to all this, graphics are very little... though I will say that the game is very little if you can't at least see the person's face. Another reason to like MARDEK and some of Pseudo's other games is that the characters all have their own faces and changing facial expressions. This adds emotional depth to the story, for a relatively low investment of effort.
Music is one of the hardest variables to get right, though. I like a good game that has different music for peaceful areas versus dungeon areas, as well as character themes, battle themes and plot-specific music. MARDEK did this well, but it could have done more for battle music, and didn't need to do so much for plot/mood music (I think "Something's Amiss" was played only once.) The most lovable music balance in an RPG was probably Crono Trigger. Some small things had their own, very good music, but such pieces were small enough to fit what they were for. Even small pieces were looped, but they didn't get annoying after you heard them a hundred times (Manoria Cathedral, anyone? Ten seconds long, if I'm not mistaken.)
I... I feel like I've said so little but wrote so much? I don't know, did I say everything I wanted to say? Well, if I want to say more, I guess I might post again? I'm terribly sorry for all the length though, I think this must be hard to choke down! Sorry!(v_v)